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High LDL Cholesterol on a Ketogenic Diet: What You Need to Know |
High LDL Cholesterol on a Ketogenic Diet: What You Need to Know | William Cromwell, Dave Feldman
#High #LDL #Cholesterol #Ketogenic #Diet
“The Proof with Simon Hill”
Some people follow a ketogenic diet seeking to lose weight, feel more energised, or gain control over their eating habits. Others may turn to this diet in an effort to treat their epilepsy, bipolar disorder, or diabetes. Regardless of their reasoning for adopting this eating pattern, a key…
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Who funded the research to determine the safety and efficacy of statins? BIG PHARMACY!! Now, they wouldn’t have any reason to mislead people—would they ?????? After all it is only a multi BILLION DOLLAR industry!!!
Can I ask when you mention surveillance are you just looking at CTCA only ? what about plaque in other areas ? , I ask because I had a CTCA and had a zero score but then had a head to hip angio and had early plaque formation in the iliac artery
Great conversation and all three guys kept the conversation flowing but Dave is doing mental gymnastics and changing goal posts every 2 minutes every time Simon asks him a direct question he answers with another question
Simon, you should get Bob Harper on, on the outside he was a super fit looking paleo guy before he had his massive heart attack, I don't think he was keto though.
I would like to see Dr Cromwell and Dr Philip Ovadia together on a podcast discussing CV and metabolic issues. Bouncing off their ideas and research off each other. With Simon as the emcee. They have different approaches on how to tackle metabolic issues / CV events.
Excellent podcast and at the cutting edge of science on this specific topic. I am keen to see a "easy to understand summary / takeaways" from this podcast if its available anywhere (please point me there).
How many are pure carnivore in the sample size?
I liked the information but made me think how complex it is to understand the multiple causes of the atherosclerosis that has caused me to have putting two stents last year. I have been doing low carb for the last three years, did keto after that for some time and lastly tried carnivore for the last three months. My LDL was elevated with low carb, managed with meds(no statins) but skyrocketed with carnivore. I am almost giving up of trying to understand the causes. Thanks anyway.
Perfect example of how counterpoint views provide illuminating discussion. Respectful, amicable and expertly guided. Thank you.
P. S. None of this is to takeaway from my first comment:
After listening to the entire conversation, my takeaway is that (1) a negative bio marker (higher LDL) for those on Keto is not being accepted as a negative (given the current study environment) with potential negative health outcomes in the future; (2) there is a desire to isolate an individual probability from the population probability which strikes me as Russian roulette being played with one's health (and ignoring that the house nearly always wins in the health casino; (3) any competent testing (one not engineered to steer toward the desired outcome (all will be well) and which will take some length of time to substantiated (increasing risk to a population risk); and finally, (4) this potentially deadly game is being played due to an unwillingness to accept a sweet potato (or carb du juor) that might mitigate the risk in accord with current data in order not to impugn the efficacy of a Ketogenic diet.
For my money, I'd like to see a study that addressed the atypical lipid profile, inflammation as well as long term effects of Keto and carnivore diets on kidney function. Such a study would at least put a pin in the debate….but at what cost to the health of many? (No horse in the race, but remember my disease management days when metabolic syndrome was but a nascent buzzword)
So are the macro-phages of FH genetically different, or not ? , (according to the mentioned studies that Bill hadn't seen) .
Can you be a lean mass hyper responder but then find out your LPa is High?
High LDL is not a disease.
50% of events happen when LDL is below 100; 75% when it is below 130; Pharma bloke still wants it low and as early as possible 😅😅 Go figure
But macrophages DO NOT attack native/healthy LDL for gods sake !!!
“Why some other lipidologists are not open to this discussion?” Because they are BIG PHARMA lipidologists. They are being paid not to listen to anyone who endangers their VERY profitable dogma
Very happy to see you conduct this because it feels to me the takeaway message many people are taking from Dave and Nick's efforts are LDL doesn't matter. I did get tripped up on the idea that preventing heart attacks doesn't increase life expectancy because inflammation, however. 🤷
A great interview. It is fascinating watching the leading lipidologists change their viewpoints after working with Dave. Both Bill and Matthew (Budoff) were both firmly planted in the lipid hypothesis of ApoB being the main driver for ASCVD. Now Bill is pushing metabolic syndrome as the main initiator of ASCVD (and while still feeling high LDL is a driver, he also indirectly implies that LDL may not be a primary driver, although due to it's involvement, still an important modifiable factor to control rate of calcification) while Matt now suggests that someone with LDL over 200 mg/dL should get a CAC (or CCTA) scan done before deciding if Statins are needed. Treat patients as individuals, despite high LDL. These major shifts, which to the uninitiated may seem small, show that the there is finally a desire to determine and describe the reasons for the initiation of CVD as opposed to modifying a piece (ApoB particles) of the causal pathway. More open discussions on evolving science with open minded experts who acknowledge the limitations on their own understandings are desired.
Mendelian randomization!!! We can also give any animal on the planet Coronary artery disease with a high fat diet. Any and every animal
When I eat several grilled beef patties from fast food restaurants, patties only without anything else, I get effortless satiety.
When I eat a healthy low carbohydrate diet that is also low in saturated fat and high in fibre, lean meats, and olives, I have to continuously ignore my appetite.
If I understood correctly, Dr Cromwell believes that it is not the Apo-b per se that is problematic. Rather it is oxidized Apo-b that is unable to transcytose back out of the arterial wall? Thus, one should conclude that it is whatever causes this oxidation to be actually the causal factor rather than the apo-b particle? Sure, lowering apo-b should, by the law of averages, result in less trapped, oxidized particles. However, unless we seriously believe the body is actively trying to damage itself when it is purposefully producing whatever level of apo-b it deems required for the environment in which it finds itself, pharmacological remedies would logically seem to be contra-indicated unless we believe science is smarter than nature. Rather we should focus on finding the root cause of that oxidation and seek to prevent it perhaps??
This discussion shines some light for me on how people make broad statements about things that are intensely complex. People say, "high LDL is not a problem" etc when it is so complex. I don't know what to think.
As a family doctor I was very impressed by this open minded type discussion format with very competent professionals. That said, I’m curious to know if there was a particular reason why Lipoprotein (a) was left out of the equation
Great interview, you may need some lighting tips
This session exposes well the dysfunctions. Mr. Cromwell confuses association for #causation, and confuses (or lies) risk of disease as same as disease. Mr. Hill doesn't know units. Even Dave Feldman disposes of units. This isn't even high school level narrative. How am I to know which metric are you guys talking about? Simon Hill, is this what you want – inaccurate pseudonarratives?
After 2 hours the #statinsalesman comes ouf of William Cromwell. Seriously, how does this person not understand the #basic tenets of scientific method. Association does not imply causation, any more than correlation does. Willian Cromwell ends up as #pseudoscientific lip-server to 1980's Pfizer statin marketing. I mean really, talk about failure to formulate metanarratives about the results of scientific research.
I came here because Dave Feldman. He seems smart, but cannot iterate which units are his numbers? Are you guys running out of oxygen or why do you speak of numbers without units?
The end outcome of this podcast? Pseudoscientific derps dropping superficial fact all the while normalizing ignorance of basic units and the scientific methods. You really did bad here. You expose the #dysfunction that permeates the institutions related to health. You are the "exhibit A" for #medicalized scientific community, and the weak pseudonarratives that come out of it now that it has been corrupted by the true powers. The #elephant is in the room – which you guys fail to account for in any way. Hint hint: this same dysfunction started in 1980's and whole books were written about this #superstition-level pseudoscience relating to statin #marketing.
Simon Hill – gee, thanks for this 9th grader podcast where you can't even tell which units your numbers are. I hope you read this, but, given this level of lack of standards in this podcast session, I am doubtful if my critique will be enough to wake you up to the prominent shortcomings of all of the participants narratives. So, its just #noise to fill between ads. This dysfunction permeates all of Western civilization, yet you manage to pretend it isn't so – even with Cromwells kosher #gospel narrative that ignores basic scientific qualities (implying that should have been a strong cue to this dysfunction surfacing).
You did have a great chance to analyze how this "version 3" of Ancel Keys' heart-lipid-hypobullsheet might be flawed, and thus improved. That might be the best of what Dave Feldman also could bring, but no. So, it was bit of waste of time. Pfft, grown-up men who can't even mention the units for their numbers. Go back to #undergraduate studies guys if this is the best you can bring!
Great convo! You did well, Simon, listening & open-minded! Kudos for this one! The guests, of course, made it interesting and pleasant watching. Thankful for @realDaveFeldman with his perseverance, dilgence and passion to keep digging in spite of the discouragement. Will be staying tuned & wish him well! 🙏🏼
Wouldn't Bill have a vested interest in the dogma