proxmox
The Virtualization Debate: XCP-NG vs Proxmox for Businesses
The Virtualization Debate: XCP-NG vs Proxmox for Businesses Leaving VMware
#Virtualization #Debate #XCPNG #Proxmox #Businesses
“Lawrence Systems”
XCP-NG XO Pricing
Proxmmox Pricing
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nutanix is god if you have daddy warbucks money
Were you still doing a video on that data center tour Tom?
Regardless of the two high recomended options, its an oportunity to change since Vmware is doing things not business friendly.
After much frustration with VMware I moved to proxmox and had it set up easily. Forum community support is great. We're pulling the trigger on five nodes plus a PBS in production January 2nd and getting the licenses. I think for small businesses with limited budgets and no full time IT person it makes a lot of sense. Far easier to configure and use than VMware and less hardware restrictions.
It's a great time to migrate to either solution. I think there is also a regional aspect to this. Paid support that is EU timezone based is a significant advantage if you are in that timezone. I see Proxmox is very popular in EU and Asian markets, where XCP-NG is more North America focused. As someone in the EU timezone, We usually have to plan around sub-par support provided by the nigh shift support desk of US based companies. It's worse on some than others, but it's a factor worth considering.
My baseline advice for people choosing between the two is as follows:
1. If you have more than 500 VMs or more than 20-ish hosts, and you have dedicated network storage, then XCP-NG is probably for you. It fits with what you are currently doing. So you don't have to re-learn everything that you are currently doing with VMware.
2. If you have hyper-converged capable hardware (storage on VM hosts), then Proxmox is likely going to give you better capabilities and much lower data centre costs with its official support and integration with Ceph. The downside is that you will need to re-work a lot of your operating procedures tho accommodate the change in architecture.
I've used Proxmox in my home lab for over a year now and it's been solid. I had to create a few scripts to manage the memory usage, since running 3 VMs would cause the host memory usage to increase. No issues. I've used VMWare ESXi ARM on my RPi4 for a few months and found it had some lag on running simple VMs. At my previous job we used MS Hyper-V in a production envinronment for hosting all of our Server/Workstation based VMs and it did the job well.
My choice for my home lab is Proxmox since I can customize it and run scripts to help manage the memory and learn things about it. I'm considering, in the near future, to migrate my Windows Server VM to an AMD based Proxmox server and create some extra VMs on it. My Intel based on will host my RHEL and Linux VMs since it plays better with the resources.
RMRKs: Running Windows Server in both GUI and Headless seem to have the same memory usage. Running RHEL and Ubuntu have a lower memory usage and keep my Proxmox server stable.
Biggest question, what to do with vSAN hardware? Any thoughts on having the distributed storage in the way vSAN does.
Also, the nice vMotion, Storage vMotion, DRS, and HA are great. Does either of the alternatives proposed here offer feature parity?
The one thing that XCP-NG doesn't have is Hyper-covered Infrastructure (HCI). With Proxmox they have built in CEPH which is a trusted and proven distributed storage systems. There support offerings also include CEPH support. XOSTOR is still in Beta but CEPH has been around for years and used by CERN.
Running close to 50 Proxmox Hypervisors with 6 different clusters in production for the last 5 years now.
My background was running vmware for private cloud customers in Asia and I'm VCP Certified.
I started with proxmox very skeptical but its has proven itself to be a production grade and I have had no issues with performing major upgrades from 6 to 8. There are some quality of life things I miss such as DRS, vDS, and centralized management of multiple clusters.
Proxmox Backup is a great product as well. It just works.
You might want to review Cockpit with cockpit-machines plugin.
At least a year and a half ago Proxmox had way more hardware support which influenced my choices a lot.
Having done trials and demos of both ProxMox and XCP-NG for work – and also having run both for several months, my choice of the two would be XCP-NG for pretty much the same reasons you state in the video – the support is great. XCP-NG is what I have been running my homelab on for several years now, hvaing initially been running ESXi.
All that said, I also trialed LXD and given the choice again would use LXD instead (I'm thinking of switching to this). I think LXD is superior to both but just does not have the GUI management interface (yet). If you are happy using the command line to control your infrastructure I'd recommend at least giving LXD a go. It also works well with MaaS and Canonical also have MicroCloud, an all-in-one solution that is based off LXD.
We use HyperV for our internal kit as were MS Partner so get Datacenter licences which means we can activate the VM's using AVMA keys so dont burn through licences. How would i licecne say 100 windows VM's on XCP-NG without burning through 100 licences rather than a couple of host datacenter licences with AVMA keys?
Good video on talking about the support side of things. Definitely an important aspect to look at when business make decisions on top of evaluating how one is going to utilize the hypervisor, what the needs are, and how the product design decisions impact the use.
As someone that has run both Proxmox and XCP-ng in production, I personally FAR prefer XCP-ng.
Im sticking to Redhat myself
I love all of the different type of videos that Lawrence Systems publishes to YouTube, however these shorter, "here is what you need to know" type videos are my absolute favourite. Right up there with the live videos. These types of videos really allow me to make technical decisions even faster than if I was only researching my options on my own. Not only do I enjoy these videos because they are helpful to me, but I also forward them to our manufacture- and software development-partners to help support what we are asking them to support. I use these videos to help support my case or my request with our other partners. Thanks again for doing these videos.
I'm using Proxmox VE since 2011 in businesses and it never disappointed me. The development since then, far most in the last six years, is incredible. The Ceph integration is great and reliable, never ever had such a fast and stable VM cluster before. With Ceph OSD's integrated into the VM nodes, you don't need an external SAN or whatever.
Maybe someone's interested in supporting American customers in their business hours. As long as you can live with Australian business hours, I truly can recommend the guys from Proxmox around the Maurer brothers, nice people 👍
XCP is garbage, one very powerful thing about proxmox is the direct integration with CEPH.
Tom is great but always pushing XCP when the community prefers proxmox? Your choice of course…
Layoffs isn't reason enough to start looking to replace a tool that still works perfectly. It's a bit premature, at this time.
I'd like to interject for a moment.
I recommend Hyper-V to small organizations with Windows Server licensing. This case Standard. Hv is not bad at all, just abandoned by Micrsoft for Azure.
Probably Proxmox for small and XCP-NG for mid organizations.
Can some tell Proxmox devs to make an agreement with other company to support its product? If they don't want support it 24/7, just make other company do it for you.
Tried XCP-NG for 6 months on a production network, worst and most stressfull months 🙁 🙂
Many issues with iSCSI and an HP SAN. As official "documentation" on their site they have videos from this channel 🙂
You leave everything working, some random time after, random crashes happen and there was no way to troubleshoot what was going on 🙁
No matter what keywords I use to search for documentation, it almost always points me to this channel 🙂
The official documentation and the number of ressources (forums, videos, third party APIs, tools, …) around Proxmox is just awesome
I don't want to be in need for official support, I want to be the support 🙂 🙂
Switched to Proxmox on that XCP-NG test for adoption site, not a signle issue since 🙂
Not going to try XCP-NG once more in the near future :-/ 🙂
I agree Tom, Hyper-V is shit. I love proxmox, and run it on production for SMB
I am going to do something for my home lab. At this point I am just doing the planning and checking for the necessary equipment to start with. I am thinking on an old Dell R720 with 8 3.5in HD bays. I want to decide for the Proxmox or XCP-NG. I am thinking that I would like to rebuild my NAS with something like FreeNAS or TrueNAS. Then in a server with 8 HD bays I have enough to put HDs and create the NAS. But I think having a machine with Dual Xeon processors just for a NAS is a waste of power and resources. Then I am planning to have installed the Virtualization Engine in there. Then, just want t know your opinion on what could be the best way to integrate these two in the same box. Virtualization (may be containers as well) and NAS. 1. Install the virtualization and then on top of that install the NAS on a VM with the physical HD attached to it, 2 Install the NAS on the same OS like another service on the physical machine. 3. Another option is to install the NAS and then install the Virtualization on top of the NAS software. I had experience playing in the past with Proxmox and XCP-NG but it was years ago on a different hardware and just creating test environments. I also think on a server like this could be good to have the capability to play with containers as well. I think it could be cool to have all this in only one powerful box with 8 HD, 256 GB or RAM and Dual Xeon. What can you tell me about this idea and what route would you take to have this done? Thanks in advance for the advice.
At work, I am using HPE Proliant DL380 and DL366 Gen 10 Servers running Proxmox perfectly for over 2 years now. Never needed support, and the reliability has been perfect.All servers the company is running is on those machines and I have had zero issues with Proxmox in the 2 years. It's simple to set up, reliable as you demand for an enterprise environment, and the pricing was excellent.
Valuable video 👍❤
Nice, succinct comparison of XCP-ng vs Proxmox for businesses.
Awful about VMware situation.
Kindest regards, friends and neighbours.
we've known for a while that you prefer XCP-NG. This, I think, is the first time I've really understood why.
I was a looong-time ESXi user in my homelab, but I recently converted everything over to Proxmox–for reasons unrelated to the buyout, although that did make it feel better. There are a few features I miss, but it's a lot less aggravation overall–many, many frustrations I had with ESXi are just… gone.
I did try out XCP-NG for a while, and while it did work well for me, I was never very happy with XO.
Here's the way I look at it.
Running a Homelab or have an SMB with limited resources, i.e. single-server? Proxmox.
My firewall has been virtualized on Proxmox for a long time now being backed up to my NAS via Proxmox Backup Server VM on said NAS with no issues. Home Assistant VM and a Linux Container with 21 Docker workloads also live on the same device and no isues.
Looking to replace your multi-server VMware ESXi cluster? XCP-NG all day long and twice on Sunday.
Running Proxmox at home, just because it was the one i read about the most. Other than the upgrade from 7 to 8 borking my networking its been fine. I'm about to wipe the system and install larger a ssd mirror and with pbs it shouldn't be a problem, wink wink
No love for OpenStack?
Hi lawrence, thank you for your videos on this. One question i have is about online expanding disks on XCP. Is this possible? Or do you need the new storage driver? Thanks!
Personally I don't consider Proxmox to be a viable alternative to large scale vsphere, its just not there yet. Nutanix HCI is, but the pricing seems to target "just a bit cheaper than vmware with vsan", xcp-ng seems to be on the right path though.
I started my "Homelab" with VMware many years ago on a HPE ProLiant MicroServer Gen8 and switched to Proxmox two years ago – to be honest, because the GUI looked nice and a bit like VMware. Then I saw some of your XCP-NG videos and tried it out. Since then I have stayed with XCP-NG because it just runs without any problems. I really like the solid updates and the backup features. Thanks a lot for all your great recommendations.
0:09 My employer is doing exactly that … migrating from VMware vSphere to Microsoft HyperV…
We have the opportunity to do a new start, and they go straight into proprietary city without learning anything…
as a noob, Proxmox has won me over, thanks to complete downloadable guide from their website
Does XCP-NG have something like VMWare's vSAN?
Proxmox is bigger in SME in Europe than it probably is in North-America.
Please do not use AI generated images in your thumbnails, we do not need AI to replace artists and art.
I tried XCP-NG and found that some of the more advanced hardware pass through tasks required you to be extremely familiar with Linux command line. Not just basic command line, but deep dark corners of the command line.
I've been using ProxMox in production for four years. Subscribed, and updated regularly. It has been an absolute rock star.
Well, let's say one can't expect a full review in under 5 minutes. For example tech-dept, upgradability, future-proof are important here and totally neglected. Not one of Tom's best videos to say the least.
How do you use something like vSAN on XCP-NG, I only see something that states it is in beta.
Proxmox is the best choice of opensource hypervisor
I must be one of dozens of Hyper-V users out there since I get free Windows Server Datacenter keys from work
yeah we abandon hypver v POC, we worked with MS for a year and they couldent deliver, i was in the MS office for weeks trying to get it working.
Proxmox FTW