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Making The Case for Open Source Hypervisors with Tom
Making The Case for Open Source Hypervisors with Tom Lawrence!
#Making #Case #Open #Source #Hypervisors #Tom
“2GuysTek”
In the post-vmware world we live in today, many people are evaluating where to turn next for their virtualization needs. In this video, I sat down with @LAWRENCESYSTEMS to discuss the viability of open-source hypervisors as an alternative to #vmware and other closed-source hypervisors available…
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Be sure to leave your comments for Tom and me below. In a few weeks, we'll answer them on the live show!
I would l like to see a comparison of these platforms at scale. Each configured how best meets their needs, maybe VMWare on a Dell Rail stack, just fully configured. The others the same way. Proxmox on whatever hardware makes sense which with Debian probably means there are tons of choices. Then compare them even if they were all on the same hardware. We use VMWare where I work and I am no VMWare expert but my experience with it is it seems pretty clunky and I have always wondered if proxmox could fill the demand. I know the support isn’t the same but just like kubernetes, if it works even though you have to build up a lot of “environment” around it, people still use it. The VMWare guys I know say proxmox can’t do the job but don’t explain why. I get the corporate problems of being the one taking the risk isn’t good. I guess I will wait and see. If there really is a vacuum here then whatever the real contender is will get forked, change, get financing, bought or whatever to meet the need. It makes me wonder if proxmox is being run at scale in a large install, I just don’t know.
Small virtualization environment and I'm in the same boat. I can say for sure I've ruled out VMware, but I'm leaning XCP-NG. I've looked at Scale and Nutanix and I'm not a fan of locked in hardware.
So is there a 1:1 comparable application similar to VMware
As to Kubernetes: It's kinda obvious that both of you don't really work with it much. It's a very important field to support though. Especially in the world of multi cloud. Saying that having no Kubernetes integration could ne seen as a net positive is just not understanding what it is you're talking about. Having Kubernetes integration does not mean being able to control the cluster from within the GUI, but the other way around. What i mean specifically is the csi driver for example. To provide storage into Kubernetes you'll need a csi driver. Having a driver for proxmox and or xcpng would be great. It's a big miss right now. At least the proxmox community seems to be creating that right now
What was that podcast Tom was listening to about navigating Bloodhound? Id like to add that to my listen list
Great video, thanks 🎉
[Title] Open Source Hypervisors
Why not virt-manager with minimal headless linux install??
There was a comment about using pfsense on US govt/contactor networks that are covered by rules like NIST 800-171. You can use pfsense, but only if you're not using to do any encryption of data through the device. If you've properly secured your any network communictions with FIPS certified encryption modules on the server/client, using pfsense to pass it around is okay. You can't use any of the vpn tech in pfsense to secure the unencrypted traffic. You must use cryptography that has gone through the NIST Cryptographic Module Validation Program (CMVP). If it doesn't have a cert, it's not okay for use with govt data. Your vendor should be able to point to that and say, here is our certificate. Google NIST CMVP, click Search under Validated modules to see the current list.
Nice deep conversation. Great job!
VMware closing off the free software is a lost a lot of people to learn the software to recommend it. Vmware wrote their own death. I deployed and supported VMware forever in both single ESXI hosts and clusters. Now I can say I can do the same thing with XCP-NG and KVM.
In my opinion, Docker and LXC belong in VM's. It's safer and keeps troubleshooting at the guest os. Keep the hypervisors doing what they do which is management of resources and migrations if something goes wrong.
While I can agree to some extent that not having good CLI skills may not exactly be the most important factor when evaluating a candidate for a job in IT in whatever capacity, experience suggests that such candidates usually are the worst performers in every IT team I have worked at because they just cannot grasp simple concepts such as automation and they just panic and don't know what to do when dropped onto a command line (which happens more often than not whether you care to admit it or not) so I at the very least expect them to display willingness to learn. If they don't, that's fine. No harm taken but I am content to part ways at that point if I am the one calling the shots. Make of that what you will.
As far as scalability of proxmox, there is currently about a 30 node max for a cluster, capable of thousands of VMs. They use corosync to sync cluster data and that's where the node limit comes in. I believe they have native multi cluster support coming though. Proxmox Rest api allows 3rd parties to build cluster management tools, of which there are a few.
We are still stuck on VMware NSX since we haven't found anything that is opensource or come close to NSX. Any thoughts if XCP will be coming down with more tools or features sets?
One benefit of Veeam and others is application-aware support for things like Active Directory, SQL and other systems that a good chunk of enterprises rely on.
Still to see that elsewhere.
I've been doing IT for a couple of decades and I've never touched Linux. I write code, C#, Python, and others. I don't want to be required to use a command line for my VM stack management. I configure my firewalls via GUI if possible. Why would I not if all the same options are there? We do exist out there in the IT world. Thanks for the video.
Great video, btw I like the beard! what products do you use?
damn this interview was gooooood. Lots of gems if you play close attention. How OSS projects work and the little intricties of it. Seriously this was good stuff. Its worth a second watch actually. Lots of game to soak up.
Broadcom the high tech metals recycler.
I love to use proxmox ve and proxmox backup server on my homelab. It helped me learn some Linux which I am happy to branch out of Windows and Apple. I am enjoying it a lot. I may look into other hypervisors to setup for fun though.
KVM? Hello?
I don’t think people are mad enough. We all should be pissed.
Can you provide feedback on XCP-NG limits to 2TB drive space. I am VMWare and have systems with storage 3+TB. Would this not work in XCP-NG? Promox states it can handle 16TB. Please let me know what your experience is.
I've been nudging my boss to move over to XCP-NG for work. He mentioned how crazy some of the price hikes have been and how expensive it is.
3111 are these projects really open source projects if their is no developer community ?
I appreciated this video. Both of you have great perspectives and are reasonable in your approaches. We still don't know what we are going to do with our small environment of 6 ESXi hosts and about 360ish vm's. The backup "issue" is an issue. We have invested a lot in a solution that works well with VMWare. So, we'll have to figure that part out too. But thanks again for this and keep putting out the good stuff!
It use to be CA was where technology went to die. Broadcom said hold my beer, and they're now where technology goes to die.
we are done with vmware. I have used vmware for 20 years and am sad to see it go but will never support Broadcom in any form.
Why am I finding info related to xcp-ng using older code or versions ??
You've tested all these solutions but you totally skipped over HyperV most organizations with an Enterprise agreement will most likely move to HyperV.
i love the idea of xcp-ng and have gotten quotes for it but the only thing stopping me from migrating to it is the 2tb vdisk limit. All my NVR's have large vdisks and I cant do iscsi direct mapping because they are built and running so I cant move them over from vmware. Once they solve that issue I can move till then I am going to have to go to Hyper-V.
Where do we find the backup writeup that Tom mentioned having recently completed?
Went from vmware/xen then later xcp-ng at work, when I finally got around to adding a vm host at home proxmox did take some getting used to but it wasn't that bad for a single host homelab. Having a working, easy to use gui without jumping through hoops was also nice but if my goal had been to replicate what I use or run into at work I'd have run something else, I specifically set out to learn proxmox because I wasn't that familiar with it but I kept hearing how good it had gotten and I'm happy I did.
As mentioned several very good options to run server vm’s. One piece I do not see much on is Virtual Desktops. What do I do with my VMware Horizon View clients? Microsoft’s Azure HCI is an option but crazy expensive. Is there anything in the Xcp-ng or Proxmox or ???? world to handle this?
Unraid does have native Docker support in the OS, installing containers in just a few clicks in the UI.
I had a quote for another three years of sns on my small cluster but didn’t get it ordered in time so needed to refresh the quote post-acquisition… quote went up 25% to over $200k, so now I’m evaluating alternatives and Broadcom will need to recover another $150k from the whales just to break even.
As a former vmware staff member I'm running my home lab on proxmox (and nest some vsphere labs on it if needed). But on a professional level I'm not too sure. How're you guys approaching the issue that basically no major server vendor (Dell, HPE, Lenovo, Cisco, …) offers official OS support for Debian/Proxmox? That's a hard sell for business critical use cases.
Where is this Zen Orchestra Fat Client you speak of?
You were talking about backups, but never mentioned Proxmox Backup Server for some reason.
I'm trying to move off of VMware, managing IT for a small/medium business. I'm having to spend the time to re-evaluate our virtualization.
My concern with XCP-NG is that it will branch again to enterprise subscription, and then the open source would get killed off. I don't know what will be safe for the next 10 years.
12:51 exactly, we have invested heavily into Rubrik for on-prem/365 SaaS backup and security, so we are limited to either Hyper-V, VMware or Nutanix. I really hope they start looking into supporting XCP-NG and Promox at some point the migrating and relearning may not be worth the price increase depending who you are, the juice may not always be worth the squeeze but having more options is always better.